The Mommy Wars Frontliner had another comment at Shakesville to answer my first reply about how a court order to require Samantha Burton to be admitted to a hospital for court ordered bed rest for threatened pre term labor was misguided. Please go back and read the link above and the original post at Shakesville if you need more context.
“Her health was NOT in danger…”
Obviously, it was. That, or her fetus’ health was in danger, so if she had any stake in saving it, she had good reason to follow the doctor’s advice. You don’t get prescribed immediate, unequivocal bed-rest without your health (or in this case, the health of your fetus) being seriously in danger. She was on the brink of miscarriage, for god’s sake. Are you suggesting that if they’d just let her out of the hospital, she -wouldn’t- have miscarried? Because that’s ridiculous.
“8 to 10% of all pregnancies in the United States end with premature delivery. Do you think all of these women are required to be on bed rest in the hospital? Bed rest is not proven to prevent pregnancy loss, and was not practical nor desirable for this woman.”
I don’t know how many of those women are required to be on bed rest. I don’t think that’s relevant. The doctor didn’t prescribe her bed rest just because she had a false alarm of premature labor. At any rate, of course bed rest isn’t *proven* to prevent pregnancy loss. -Nothing- is proven to prevent pregnancy loss. Nothing is proven to prevent anything. But if you’re seriously ill, I think bed rest is better than the alternative.
“Just how many mothers are you trying to say care “shit-all” about their babies? 1 in 6 mothers?”
If that’s how many mothers chain-smoke around their kids and during pregnancy, then yeah, I guess so. And just so we’re clear, fathers are not exempt here. If you’re a parent, and you’re willfully exposing your child to dangerous chemicals to an extent that it could fuck up the child’s health for life, you’re a shitty parent, end of story.
“Exercise has also been associated with pregnancy loss. I wonder what you think of women who are selfish enough to take epilepsy meds.”
I believe the former is a myth. As for women with epilepsy, I don’t know why you bring them up. They didn’t choose to have epilepsy, and it says right in the article you linked that not taking medication could deprive the fetus of oxygen during a seizure. There’s a world of difference between a woman who can’t help having epilepsy and a woman who chooses to smoke during her pregnancy.
“Don’t you dare say she didn’t care shit-all about her kids.”
Besides the fact that your anecdote says nothing to the defense of Burton, I see nothing in it to counter my assessment. Caring about people doesn’t prevent us from making mistakes – but it does prevent us from willfully harming them.
@TiPerihelion, you obviously don’t know much about pregnancy or birth, so why are you still offering such strong opinions?
First of all, a miscarriage is a loss before 20 weeks. She was past 20 weeks. You don’t even know what health condition you’re even talking about. “She was on the brink of miscarriage, for god’s sake!”
I have had a miscarriage. 30% or more of pregnancies end in miscarriage. My health was never in danger. Miscarriage does not put a woman’s health in danger unless there is a complication. Miscarriage is much, much safer for a mother than carrying a pregnancy to term. A mother’s health is more in danger from carrying a pregnancy than having a miscarriage or abortion.
The effectiveness of bedrest for PRETERM labor, what she had a “false alarm” of, is exactly relevant because that is what was recommended to this woman. It is not recommended as effective, even by the Cochrane database. I am sure you have never heard of the Cochrane database, but they are the collectors and disseminators of evidence based medicine.
So, how about that fetus again? Now you are admitting it was the fetus, not the woman, who was in danger. Read the original post, read your first comment, and tell me what you think about the judge bringing up the fetus now. Think about the slippery slope here.
As for smoking, fathers and mothers being shitty parents, congrats. You have taken one, small issue, and made it somehow the gold standard for good parenting. Sexual abuse? Neglect? Hey, as long as you’re not a smoker, TiPerihelion thinks you’re a great parent. Oh, wait, no, that’s not how it works? Then stop passing judgments on the parenting skills of people who you have never met. And, that has NOTHING to do with mandating three months of hospital-admitted bed rest to a working, low income woman with two living children and no child care. And smoking during pregnancy? TiPerihelion probably knows a foolproof way for a pregnant woman to stop smoking without using medication during pregnancy, too. I’m waiting breathlessly for you to publish that paper in an addiction journal.
Until you actually know more about the medical conditions you are discussing, no one cares whether you think exercise leads to higher miscarriage rates. It does. It’s called evidence. No one cares what you think when you read one line of an article on epileptic drugs and what they do during pregnancy. Did you read the line that said 90% of the children of these mothers will be born healthy? What about those other 10%? That’s due to the drug effects.
Your attitude and judgment makes mothers afraid to take necessary medications during pregnancy. Your attitude makes women who are smokers during pregnancy hide that from their practitioners instead of getting the help they need to stop. Your attitude defends stripping pregnant women of their rights and identities, and treats them like human incubators.